Fabulous Females

That's what this site is for: a place to gather all of the ideas and observations of real women living out the drama of single life in a world of "hooking up" and "putting out." If you'd like to become a poster, just give us your email address in a comment so we can invite you in! This is a non-discriminatory place to air out your feelings, so please be constructive! We also welcome men to post insight, comments, and advice on today's culture between males and females.

Tuesday, March 06, 2007


Here's a first for the fab females (I think? Perhaps not?).

The plea for modesty.

You've seen it other places before, you probably heard it for years from your parents, had it forced on you through church and the like, and chances are, if you're reading this, you're probably already pretty damn good at it. But I'm repeating it because...

Its important. Really important. Important enough that if there's ever a little girl that I'm blessed to father, it will be a huge, huge guiding principle instituted by her parents. Its important enough that I'm thinking about it before I've even met a girl to mother said daughter.

I just don't think girls get how important it is.

There's an absolutely excellent article that I've referrenced in a number of different circumstances from the New York Magazine, by Naomi Wolf, called The Porn Myth. From the article:

I will never forget a visit I made to Ilana, an old friend who had become an Orthodox Jew in Jerusalem. When I saw her again, she had abandoned her jeans and T-shirts for long skirts and a head scarf. I could not get over it. Ilana has waist-length, wild and curly golden-blonde hair. “Can’t I even see your hair?” I asked, trying to find my old friend in there. “No,” she demurred quietly. “Only my husband,” she said with a calm sexual confidence, “ever gets to see my hair.”

When she showed me her little house in a settlement on a hill, and I saw the bedroom, draped in Middle Eastern embroideries, that she shares only with her husband—the kids are not allowed—the sexual intensity in the air was archaic, overwhelming. It was private. It was a feeling of erotic intensity deeper than any I have ever picked up between secular couples in the liberated West. And I thought: Our husbands see naked women all day—in Times Square if not on the Net. Her husband never even sees another woman’s hair.

She must feel, I thought, so hot.



And so we're back to the skirts. It won't be news to the ladies when I tell them that we gents are visually stimuatled. Its how we're wired. Its how we are programmed to react. We're like stupid frickin computers, and as simple as it is to type, its truer than it can possibly sound. We see skin, we initiate the sex protocol. We can (and should) work to re-write our software, as it were, but at the end of the day we're still the same machine.

Gross, I know. You are rightly disgusted. And yet, this is the truth of the matter.

You now have a choice: you can remain angry and perturbed at the way we are, or you can accept the way God chose to make us. No, I'm not saying its God's fault when a guy goes to far in lustful thought, however I do think its true that he created men to be primarily visually stimualted for a reason. That said, I don't pretend that the choice of acceptance is an easy one for girls to make, but most important decisions never are.

Skirts show more leg than jeans. Short skirts show even more leg. That's all I really need to say about it. Should girls be able to wear a modest skirt and not have men lurch into debauched thoughts at the sight of their uncovered calf? Yes. Will that be the case 100% of the time? The Victorians didn't think so. Maybe they had something.

I remember back when Gibson's The Passion of the Christ was about to be released, there was some measure of debate in (at least) reformed circles as to whether such a film was in fact a violation of fairly clear Old Testament law that forbids the visual representation of God in any form. My younger brother made an interesting comment as we talked about whether watching such a movie would in fact be "sinful."

"I won't sin by not watching it," he said.

That's kind of how I like to think of things like modesty, or physical involvement in a relationship, for that matter. Its not a matter of how far you can push the envelope and still "stay safe." Approaching such issues with the wrong motivation will only set you up for failure. We need to change our motives to be more of "how far can we flee temptation?" (or in the case of modesty, "how far can we help others flee temptation?").

Do we men have a calling to bring our thoughts captive before God and maintain pure hearts? Yes. Can women by the simple act of what they choose to wear help men to do that? Yes.

Which is more honorable? I'm not entirely sure.

13 Comments:

  • At 8:20 PM, March 07, 2007, Blogger none said…

    I think of myself as a very modest person. I generally wear skirts to the knee, don't wear low-cut tops, or anything too tight or sheer, etc. This is based on both my own comfort level as well as my discomfort with men who practically salivate all over you if your collarbone is showing.

    I always hear about how women should be modest, knowing that men have so many lustful thoughts, but women struggle with lust too, and I never see that consideration reciprocated. Do you think women don't notice a bare-chested man, for instance? Men and women are different, sure, but it really does go both ways.

    In any case, I will continue to dress and behave modestly out of self-respect, and so much the better if this helps my brothers in Christ.

    Have you guys seen the recent online modesty survey? I found it to be pretty interesting. Here's the link: http://www.therebelution.com/modestysurvey/browse

     
  • At 12:13 AM, March 08, 2007, Blogger Jennifer said…

    David, I am totally with you on this one. In fact, I've been trying to work my "D" game... including wearing sweatpants when I go out with friends. Though I haven't gotten the courage to go on a date in sweatpants. Someday I will.

     
  • At 12:21 AM, March 08, 2007, Blogger Jennifer said…

    There is one underlying issue with modesty. Much like chastity, it really needs full female participation for effectiveness. Sometimes I feel like it's a lost cause for me to wear a turtleneck, when there's a Victoria's Secret model billboard. Not that I don't want to be modest, but I wonder if it's really doing much good.

    It's almost like sex. Think about how many men would trample over each other to commit and propose to women if that's the only way they could have sex with us. Okay, that's blunt but true.

     
  • At 5:20 AM, March 08, 2007, Blogger The Prufroquette said…

    My thing is and always has been this:

    I can't tell you how often I've heard the modesty issue preached from the pulpit and reiterated by male friends, magazine articles, Sunday school lessons. And I agree, modesty is important -- like Jess said, as much for self-respect as for helping our brothers.

    But you know what I don't hear from the pulpit? Not only, as Jess said, that lust is reciprocal, but that men need to be careful to treat the women they know and meet with respect. Should a guy be all touchy-feely with a girl he considers a "friend," when she's single and starving for touch and extremely vulnerable in a lonely, oversexualized culture? Should a man neglect the common decency of holding doors?

    If we as women have to be careful with men's minds, men have to be careful with women's hearts. I've been trying to think where a woman's greatest vulnerability lies, and I think it's right there, at the heart. I've seen more women get their hearts involved in a friendship or relationship too fast (myself included), and the results are disastrous, and usually make for bitter, cynical, suspicious women.

    Men can do something to prevent that. If they're single, they can be careful to show the same courtesies (greeting, speaking, gentlemanliness) to EVERY woman, not just one or two in particular. They can avoid spending alone time with a woman if they don't intend to date her. They can choose to date, because most women automatically respect the "taken" guy as taken. They can avoid being touchy-feely with any girl whom they aren't dating.

    I once had a friend in college who wouldn't let me even walk on the edge of the sidewalk closest to the street. Having him marshall me to one side or the other (depending on which direction we were walking) was very confusing until he explained, "It's for your safety. If a car ever lost control, it would be less likely to hit you." And he treated everybody like that. It made me feel great. But at the same time he wasn't all over me or playing any games.

    So I probably won't wear ankle-length skirts or a veil anytime soon, but I am and always have been modest. I do think that women need to keep that in mind.

    But if the church is going to preach it, it has to preach it both ways.

    Furthermore, I have yet to see a church with a porn addict support group. You may hear the occasional obligatory "porn is bad" speech from the pulpit, but come on, church, this is a real and growing problem among a lot of young Christian men. Good guys, decent guys, nice guys that I have known practically from infancy have problems with pornography. And they're getting married! This is something that needs to be DEALT WITH. I know of a couple where the man doesn't want to make love to his wife anymore because he'd rather watch internet pornography.

    This issue is surrounded by a lot of secrecy and silence, and there will never be a solution with that kind of treatment. Pornography is condemned, but its members who have succumbed to the temptation are seldom encouraged to confess it, address it, or be healed. It's just as critical for men to keep themselves pure as it is for women to help them do it.

    Because like Jen says, there's only so much we women are responsible for, and that's our own behavior. This is a sex-crazed society, and there are thousands of sources besides the good Christian women wearing skirts. The article David quoted noted that the husband never even saw another woman's HAIR. Unfortunately another woman's everything is up for ogling in our advertisements and clothing styles. I don't envy you guys.

    I have a question. Why are men in the church generally so reluctant to date? I think it has something more to it than fear of rejection or not feeling grown up enough to commit. Most Christian guys I've dated have seemed terrified to touch me, and I mean at all. I'm not a big fan of the first date kiss (I don't think a plate of food earns that right), but when our arms brush on the sidewalk he practically jumps away, or freezes. What's the issue with physicality? Are most men afraid they'll lose all control? Or for some of them, is it because they don't know what to do with a three-dimensional girl?

    Now I know I just spent a good deal of time talking about how men should be mindful of how they touch women. But a DATE? That's different. The awkwardness is palpable, and half the time I wind up feeling like a freak.

    Can someone tell me why?

     
  • At 5:24 AM, March 08, 2007, Blogger Adam the V said…

    I did see that survey a while ago, ScienceGirl, and I did a spit take with my root beer. I think it's important to remember that "modesty" is almost completely dictated by culture. Christians in certain African tribes have no problem with women walking around topless. Whereas in contemperary American Christian culture women need to wear burlap sacks in order to not be a succubus.

    I completely see your point, David, but I also experience a lot of this kind of talk as an excuse for men who can't control their thoughts. The drooling idiot of lust in our brain CAN be reprogrammed - and it's the devil's triumph that he's convinced Christian men that it is too hard, or near impossible.

     
  • At 7:48 AM, March 08, 2007, Blogger Yax said…

    What's the issue with physicality? Are most men afraid they'll lose all control? Or for some of them, is it because they don't know what to do with a three-dimensional girl?

    Although I don't know the answer to this, I am perfectly willing to speculate. I'm sure it's true that some men truly don't know what to do with three-dimensional girl. But I suspect for other men that it may have something to do with boundaries. As Christian men, we know sex is off limits. That's a given. And there are certain areas of the body where hands should not stray. But what about, for example, the kiss? Is that covered in scripture? Is it okay for a Christian man to kiss a woman he has romantic feelings for but is not married to? I think most of us would say it is okay, but there's still that doubt.

    Not only would the Christian guy be dealing with the usual confusion of "Is this the right time for the kiss?" but with the added fear of, "Is a kiss going too far and is she going to take this as an unwanted and unchristian sexual advance?" Obviously, this line of thinking can get unreasonable if the guy starts thinking, "Oh no, I brushed her arm! Now the whole church is going to think I'm a pervert!"

    The problem, as I am probably oversimplifying it to be, is that the guy is trying to negotiate the personal boundaries of the woman in question, and also the boundaries set by the church. That many of these boundaries are unspoken can complicate the issue.

    I'd like to talk about some other points people have made, but I'm at work right now, so I'll have to come back later.

     
  • At 9:11 AM, March 08, 2007, Blogger Marianne said…

    In honor of this post I am wearing a just-past-the-knee-length navy skirt, herringbone-patterned tights, my black knee-high boots,a black, long-sleeved turtleneck, and a red suede hat. The only exposed skin on my body is my face and my hands.
    And I look pretty fabulous, if I do say so.
    If the church is going to preach modesty, they had better simultaneously preach against dowdiness. Just because a young woman is covered up does not mean that she needs to look Amish (unless she's Amish). By the way, may I just say that growing up, the Amish girls were the most unhappy, spiteful group of girls I've ever met? Modesty without feminity goes against the very nature of women.

     
  • At 9:14 AM, March 08, 2007, Blogger Jennifer said…

    While reading Psalm 119 for my new devotional called Self Confrontation, I came upon these verses.

    "9 How can a young man keep his way pure?
    By living according to your word.
    10 I seek you with all my heart;
    do not let me stray from your commands.

    11 I have hidden your word in my heart
    that I might not sin against you.

    12 Praise be to you, O LORD;
    teach me your decrees."

    If we are truly seeking out Him and striving not to live our lives selfishly, I believe Christ offers us protection from the worldly temptations. Not that this is easy, because it's not. We can finger point at the opposite sex all we want, but it really all comes down to God. Only He can save us from ourselves.

     
  • At 9:41 AM, March 08, 2007, Blogger The Prufroquette said…

    True, but also there's the exhortations for us to "bear one another's burdens," and come together as a corporate body to encourage and admonish each other according to Scripture and in love, that the church may be one and a people who are holy in practice as much as in standing before God in Christ's salvation.

    So there's this fine line between self-responsibility (because really, there's only so much one person can do for other people's problems) and looking out for each other. If we only blame others, clearly that's a problem; but if we only blame ourselves, that doesn't work either.

    The church these days has become much more centered around a belief in individual privacy, which has its good points; but the church used to be up in EVERYBODY'S business, and be a recognized authority in the lives of its members, to hold them accountable. Now the only accountability seems to be that we have to LOOK like we have it all together (and that's a hypocrisy that anyone outside the church can smell from a long way off). We're too embarrassed to confess our sins to each other. Too ashamed at the things to which we fall prey to speak them aloud. Too afraid of hearing someone speak the truth to us about how what we're doing is wrong.

    And yet the Psalmist says, "Let a righteous man strike me; it is a kindness. Let him rebuke me; it is oil on my head. My head will not refuse it." An openness to admonition from one of God's people, if it's delivered in love and not with self-righteous arrogance (see Christ's teaching about taking the plank out of your own eye before removing the speck from your brother's), is one of the ways we "spur one another on toward love and good deeds" (and spurs sting).

    And it's easy to point out where women are failing in modesty. Everyone can see it. "Oh, look, that shirt is too low and that skirt is too short." You can just walk up and tell her so. But there are other sins that aren't apparent to the naked (haha) eye. Pornography. Emotional manipulation. Lack of self control. How do you walk up to someone and say they shouldn't be doing it, if you don't know? How can the church hold its members accountable if it has no idea how people are living their lives in the name of respecting privacy? How can these less obvious but just as destructive behaviors be eradicated if they aren't brought into the light?

    And girls can be just as prone to emotional manipulation, lack of self control, and even pornography and lust, as guys. This is an everyone kind of thing, because in the end we're all in this together. That's how a body works.

    I'm not sure how we come out of this Victorian sensibility of silence (we like to blame the Puritans, but they pretty much knew everything about each other; wives were known to sue their husband for not fulfilling marital bedroom obligations). But if we're supposed to be free, and open to the working of the Spirit, and open to one another, why do we hide from the truth?

    We seem to think a convicting sermon, delivered well, is message enough. But almost none of Paul's letters addressed good preaching; they addressed holy living and corporate life. Something more is needed, so that we can live out more actively the grace of God transforming lives -- where we are equally responsible for our own behavior, and for encouraging our brothers'.

     
  • At 9:55 AM, March 08, 2007, Blogger Jennifer said…

    Ooohh.. Sarah, you always give me a lot to think about. One thing that's been really hitting home for me is scripture. That I need to be constantly in the Word to truly KNOW what God says. It's not something that I've found terribly important in the past. But since starting this new study, it's become alive for me. It's also helped me through some tough times. I do think many of our issues can be not alleviated, but that clarity can be achieved, through the Bible.


    On a side topic, I've had the opportunity in the past few days to share about the Fab Females blog. When I talk about it, my eyes crinkle up and I'm visibly excited. It's so refreshing to be able to talk about different pertinent topics with you all: smart, interesting, God-fearing folks that you are.

    I never imagined that a blog would be a factor in keeping my faith vivid and alive through my 20s.

     
  • At 11:48 AM, March 08, 2007, Blogger Dawn said…

    Has anyone heard of XXXchurch.com? They're a bunch of guys who reach out to people in the porn industry and people with porn addictions. There's some really interesting stuff on their website, including a column by a former pornographer (I ended up reading just about everything on his website--wow. He just became a Christian in September and gave up making porn--there's so much honesty there, and he talks about the huge, non-monetary costs models in that industry pay).

    As to some earlier comments: everyone needs touch. It's built into us. What we need are more platonic, physical ways to express affection.

    It's funny, since I got really into lindy hop culture I've become much more "touchy" than I ever was before--when you're used to dancing with people of the opposite sex all the time, especially in close dances, a lot of touch and affection becomes very normal that isn't in our larger culture. And in a lot of ways it's healthy.

    Christians tend to hit an extreme about physical affection and things like kissing, but we need some of that, and the right amount at the right time is a good thing. Physicality should express and enhance an emotional bond, and it creates a feedback loop as the emotion bond pushes more a more physical one. In romantic relationships it can only go so far of course--you become so close emotionally that you'd better get married, for the sake of both types of bonds. :-p But each couple's boundary for that is going to be different, and they'll have to communicate to see where that is. The point is not to push things as far as they'll go, but if one area is out of sync with the other it does lead to frustration.

     
  • At 1:26 PM, March 08, 2007, Blogger Adam the V said…

    I'm with you all the way Dawn. Christians are waaaaay uptight about touch. Similar to your dancing, I've been involved in theatre and acting for all my adult life, so I think my perceptions on touch are a bit different. My female (or male) cast mate may be the one I'm passionately making out with onstage tomorrow night, or helping do a quickchange offstage.

    My actor friends share back rubs, hugs, cuddles, kisses, and whatnot. A couple months ago I gave a friend at a church small group a squeeze on the shoulder in greeting. Later she came up to me and told me that it was too intimate for her and it made her feel uncomfortable. I wanted to pat her on the butt just to get a reaction, but of course I respected her feelings ;)

     
  • At 8:32 PM, March 08, 2007, Blogger David said…

    Lots of great thoughts here - too much really to address it all. A couple of things:

    I never meant this as an excuse post for men, or to put any blame on women for the sin we struggle with. I submit:

    We can (and should) work to re-write our software...I'm not saying its God's fault when a guy goes to far in lustful thought...

    Sarah - great points. I have been that guy who walks closer to the street than the girl (its one of those lesser known rules in the holding doors category).

    And my church does have a sexual addiction group (another reason I love my church) - I've attended it with the guys from my men's accountability group. I'll go so far as to say that I don't think you yourself know the depth of the problem you addressed - I fully believe 90%+ of men struggle with pornography in some form or another. Its just that big of a silent, unaddressed problem. Especially for Christian men - Satan isn't nearly as concerned with tempting the already-lost as he is in ruining good relationships with the Father.

    As to your question on men's reluctance to date / touch / etc.. - I don't have such a problem with it, personally - I don't think, at least. But I do try to respect a girl's comfort levels and usually take my time (sometimes too much, sometimes too little). Its a difficult science because its different with every two people, and men are in the drivers seat. I suggest:

    - Cut them a little slack. They're driving in new territory and they've never been given a good map, most times.

    - Maybe take a little initiative? I know its a lot harder for me to read when the right time is to make a move with a girl who's never brushed arms with me than it is with the girl who's touched my arm in a moment of laughter or something similar. Even less so with the one playing footsie under the table. Your mileage may vary.

     

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